03-25-2003, 11:20 PM
1.6 p02// ??? :-X WHO would run a bottom P02 of 1.6 in cold water?? ??? I hope that tewch divers would know better.
We never go over 1.4 for a bottom mix, and that's to the MUD not just ideal max depth. 1.6 is only used for deco gases and air breaks may be included to keep you to away from the "knife's edge" of toxicity.
We do a lot of survey dives on, and IN, shipwrecks in the 120'-130' range. Using triox helps you keep your data straight in your wet notes. It also helps with camera controls.
I am not going to get into some chest beating discussion about how "good" we may or may not be on deep air. In the past I dove deep air, as well as many others on here I am sure. But the fact is there are safer ways to do things and I have have evolved my diving technique with the times.
Triox doesn't cost that much more if you mix it yourslef. The problem comes in with some greedy shops that want to charge a ton of money for something simple. You can even mix triox with your nitrox "premix" that's already banked in the shop. Add a little HE, add a little nitrox, top with a bit of air and check your mix. Pull out your palm pilot to run your tables, I bought mine for $75 at Circut City, and your off.
I understand that this may seem like a lot for some diveshops at this point, but remember that nitrox was a HUGE deal for diveshops 10 years ago. Give it time and it will come.
I don't know why some shops won't accept GUE cards? It is more of a turf war or some kind of an ego threat than anything else. IF someone want's to come and dive with a rebreather or DIR go ahead. Your all adults and can choose for yourself. If you've got the card then someone out there is willing to take responsibilty for your training.
As far as the added expense of argon, most Great Lakes wreck divers that I know have been using argon for years, even if the still dive "air". It makes a big difference and you can build a set up in your garage in less than an hour. I strongly encourage any drysuit diver to use it no matter what you breath. 8) We acutally have an argon hose tied into our icediving lines that we train new ice divers with. HTe argon tank stays at the surface in a heated ice shanty and the end of the hose has a splitter with two suit hoses coming off of it. Not only are you Y-clipped to your buddy, but your also suit clipped. It makes a big difference to have heated argon being pumped into your suit when your suit when your in the "hole" for a good six hours or so running students through. 8)
Another point on limits. We regularly do 90 minute dives on the wrecks in 135' with close to 60 minute bottom times. The club policy is that you can dive that deep on nitrox, but you can only make a 30 minute, bottom time, dive and NO penetration. If you go over 30 minutes of bottom time, or enter an overhead enviroment, then you need to switch to triox for that dive. We have no 02 issues with the conservative nature inwhich we plan things out.
You can still dive air of course, I am just giving you a glimpse of what the future will bring. IF your shops are raking you over the coals for trimix fills it might be time to travle somewhere else and learn how to do it yourself. Thereis a lot of hype and misinfromation out there about gas mixing and it really isn't that hard to do. PADI even has trimix blending certifications out now and their trimix program is suppossed to be out this summer.
Jon
We never go over 1.4 for a bottom mix, and that's to the MUD not just ideal max depth. 1.6 is only used for deco gases and air breaks may be included to keep you to away from the "knife's edge" of toxicity.
We do a lot of survey dives on, and IN, shipwrecks in the 120'-130' range. Using triox helps you keep your data straight in your wet notes. It also helps with camera controls.
I am not going to get into some chest beating discussion about how "good" we may or may not be on deep air. In the past I dove deep air, as well as many others on here I am sure. But the fact is there are safer ways to do things and I have have evolved my diving technique with the times.
Triox doesn't cost that much more if you mix it yourslef. The problem comes in with some greedy shops that want to charge a ton of money for something simple. You can even mix triox with your nitrox "premix" that's already banked in the shop. Add a little HE, add a little nitrox, top with a bit of air and check your mix. Pull out your palm pilot to run your tables, I bought mine for $75 at Circut City, and your off.
I understand that this may seem like a lot for some diveshops at this point, but remember that nitrox was a HUGE deal for diveshops 10 years ago. Give it time and it will come.
I don't know why some shops won't accept GUE cards? It is more of a turf war or some kind of an ego threat than anything else. IF someone want's to come and dive with a rebreather or DIR go ahead. Your all adults and can choose for yourself. If you've got the card then someone out there is willing to take responsibilty for your training.
As far as the added expense of argon, most Great Lakes wreck divers that I know have been using argon for years, even if the still dive "air". It makes a big difference and you can build a set up in your garage in less than an hour. I strongly encourage any drysuit diver to use it no matter what you breath. 8) We acutally have an argon hose tied into our icediving lines that we train new ice divers with. HTe argon tank stays at the surface in a heated ice shanty and the end of the hose has a splitter with two suit hoses coming off of it. Not only are you Y-clipped to your buddy, but your also suit clipped. It makes a big difference to have heated argon being pumped into your suit when your suit when your in the "hole" for a good six hours or so running students through. 8)
Another point on limits. We regularly do 90 minute dives on the wrecks in 135' with close to 60 minute bottom times. The club policy is that you can dive that deep on nitrox, but you can only make a 30 minute, bottom time, dive and NO penetration. If you go over 30 minutes of bottom time, or enter an overhead enviroment, then you need to switch to triox for that dive. We have no 02 issues with the conservative nature inwhich we plan things out.
You can still dive air of course, I am just giving you a glimpse of what the future will bring. IF your shops are raking you over the coals for trimix fills it might be time to travle somewhere else and learn how to do it yourself. Thereis a lot of hype and misinfromation out there about gas mixing and it really isn't that hard to do. PADI even has trimix blending certifications out now and their trimix program is suppossed to be out this summer.
Jon