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Starting Dry Suit - TMF89 - 04-21-2009
Hey guys, I just got my pool dives finished (haven't done open water yet), and I LOVED IT!!! Already looking at trips to tropical areas, and all kinds of places/dives up here. Now I realize that you can dive here in a wetsuit, a 5mm or 7mm, but I figure I'll eventually do ice diving, and obviously I want a drysuit for that. My question for open water diving is will I get too hot? Say I'm diving in 50-70 degree water in the summer in various lakes, will the dry suit overheat me? I realize I could just get a 5mm suit or just rent one or something to compensate, that was more of just a random question.
As far as buying one goes, I would really like to get a new one. I'm 19 years old, so I figure if I invest in a good one now, I won't go through the typical consumer scenario of buying something cheap for the first time, then feeling the need to upgrade a few years later. Especially since I'm young. So I'm looking at not going for the cheapest option, but I don't want to spend $1300 on a suit either (although if there is a serious difference between a $600-900 suit and one of those, I'll consider it). Basically I'm wondering what make/model I should get, any models or brands I should make sure NOT to get, and also any dive shops (especially in the metro area) that allow me to test out different models. On a side note, since I don't have anything else either, are there any shops in the twin cities that will allow you to rent out different kinds of equipment each time, to test them?
Sorry for the ton of writing, basically: What is a good quality drysuit, are there any shops that will let me test out different kinds, can I use it year-round, and any other info you guys feel like sharing. Thanks for the help guys!
Re: Starting Dry Suit - LKunze - 04-21-2009
No, you will most definitely not get too hot at 50 degrees. You will need a fair amount of insulation at those temps. With a dry suit you have the ability to wear different amounts of insulation underneath to adjust to the type of diving you are doing. I generally wear a full 400 gram thinsulate jumpsuit under my drysuit for anything below 60 degrees. For above 60 degrees I usually wear my 300 gram polar fleece jump suit underneath. If diving real shallow/warm water you can just wear shorts and a shirt if you want. Keep in mind that locally the water never is warm at deeper depths even at the peak of summer. Pretty much any lake is going to be 50 degrees or lower below 40 to 50 feet deep. Once you get below 60 to 70 feet the temps are going to be anywhere from 39 to 46 degrees year round. Also, when planning the purchase of a dry suit make sure you budget for some good undergarments made for dry suit diving. Off the shelf outdoor clothing from a sporting goods store will not work as well for cold water diving but will work in a pinch for warmer diving.
Quote:As far as buying one goes, I would really like to get a new one. I'm 19 years old, so I figure if I invest in a good one now, I won't go through the typical consumer scenario of buying something cheap for the first time, then feeling the need to upgrade a few years later. Especially since I'm young. So I'm looking at not going for the cheapest option, but I don't want to spend $1300 on a suit either (although if there is a serious difference between a $600-900 suit and one of those, I'll consider it). Basically I'm wondering what make/model I should get, any models or brands I should make sure NOT to get, and also any dive shops (especially in the metro area) that allow me to test out different models. On a side note, since I don't have anything else either, are there any shops in the twin cities that will allow you to rent out different kinds of equipment each time, to test them?
You will easily spend $1300+ for a good new suit but decent used suits can be had for under $1000. I purchased my first suit from a local dive shop's rental suit line. It was a DUI TLS350 and cost was I believe $900. I used that suit for 3 or 4 years and then spent over $2000 on a new custom fit Diving Concepts suit a few years ago. If you can fit well into a stock sized suit you will save a considerable amount of money. There are many good brands and models of dry suits. I would highly recommend going with a shell style suit and not a neoprene dry suit. The shells will hold up better and won't compress down like the neoprene suits. Many shops rent dry suits and have different ones in stock and I'd recommend going that route before making a purchase. If you can't try one in the water at least try several on for proper fit in the store before making a purchase. You want to make sure you get a suit that is big enough to allow for the most insulation you plan to wear underneath but at the same time you don't want a real baggy fitting suit either as that will make it more difficult to dump air from the suit. Your local dive shop will be able to help fit you properly for a dry suit. Hope this helps.
Re: Starting Dry Suit - DetectorGuy - 04-21-2009
Another slight consideration is your metabolism... A 19 year old is active and probably busy exercising enough to maintain a certain weight. As the years go by and you get less active, the suit seems like it shrinks... until you realize you put on a few pounds, and then you are looking for a wider suit... Just a thought
Re: Starting Dry Suit - ballfrog - 04-21-2009
I'll second LKunze you won't get too hot unless you have on too much underwear. And you don't want too much underwear because then you have to add tons of weight to compensate. With light underwear, I have to weight myself like I'm wearing my 7 mil farmer john. And if I wear my warm jammies, I really have to load on the lead.
Quote:As far as buying one goes, I would really like to get a new one. I'm 19 years old, so I figure if I invest in a good one now, I won't go through the typical consumer scenario of buying something cheap for the first time, then feeling the need to upgrade a few years later. Especially since I'm young. So I'm looking at not going for the cheapest option, but I don't want to spend $1300 on a suit either (although if there is a serious difference between a $600-900 suit and one of those, I'll consider it).
Sorry to say, but $1300 is in the cheap range if you consider the underwear. But it's a pretty long term investment, it should outlast several wetsuits.
Quote:Basically I'm wondering what make/model I should get, any models or brands I should make sure NOT to get, and also any dive shops (especially in the metro area) that allow me to test out different models. On a side note, since I don't have anything else either, are there any shops in the twin cities that will allow you to rent out different kinds of equipment each time, to test them?
I found that when I was shopping, different manufacturers had quite different cuts. I'd shop a few and see what you can find that fits. Like LKunze says, the custom option will add a few hundred dollars. I think Air Down There in Little Canada rents drysuits and there is a store in Egan that I forget the name of right now. You'll have to get dry suit certified before anybody will rent you one though. You should also check into a dry suit demo day, where the manufacturers bring suits and partner with a store to demo them at a lake or the quarries. I know Smith has a demo day, but am pretty clueless as to when.
Quote:Sorry for the ton of writing, basically: What is a good quality drysuit, are there any shops that will let me test out different kinds, can I use it year-round, and any other info you guys feel like sharing. Thanks for the help guys!
There are a ton of things to learn about dry suits that you can learn from a dry suit specialty class. Neoprene? Crushed Neo? Nylon? Laminated? Butyl rubber? Front or back zip? Types of seals? Integrated boots or socks and seperate boots? Make a dry suit specialty one of your first specialites.
Re: Starting Dry Suit - arcFlash - 04-21-2009
I agree with LKunze but with a few options.
1: My wife went right to a dry suit for this very reason and I think it was a mistake. She never mastered buoyancy in a wetsuit so she doesn't have mastery control in the dry suit even after dozens of dives. It's just much harder to learn buoyancy and dry suit together. She is very happy in her 7mil most of the time. She bought a wetsuit after the drysuit so everyone owns both. The option, get the wetsuit and get good at diving first and get a dry suit next summer.
2: I have maybe 150 dry dives using my mountaineering clothes/fleece. Something like 30 ice dives. I use 2 fleece bottom, 2 top and a vest for ice. I stay as warm as my buddies and I have no problem with valve drills. It is a pain long term to remember all that clothes so I'm looking for the correct undies. The option, If you have quality synthetics they'll work long enough for you to learn how much insulation you want.
Re: Starting Dry Suit - LKunze - 04-21-2009
If you own mountaineering clothing already it wouldn't hurt to try it if your budget is limited as arc mentioned. If you do not then it wouldn't make much sense to go that route. Good quality mountaineering clothing is expensive and layers of it will add up the $ fast and as mentioned, is much less convenient than a dedicated one or two piece diving garment.
Going to a drysuit from the start kinda depends on the diver. I found the transition very easy from wet to dry. I started in a wetsuit and after my first dive in Superior that was it for the wetsuit. WAY to cold for any "longer" 1+ hour duration dives. Most ice dives aren't very long so short term most anyone can tolerate extreme cold for shorter <40 minute dive times but longer dives require more insulation.
Re: Starting Dry Suit - jasondbaker - 04-21-2009
Here's my 2cents.
If you are just getting into diving with no local diving experience you should not be looking to buy a drysuit. I'll go one step further. You should not be buying any equipment. (I'm just trying to help you avoid the mistakes the rest of us made).
First, you may not enjoy local diving. Many new divers try local diving and decide that it's not for them. Local diving is very different than the pool or the tropics. Why invest thousands of dollars into something you might not like?
Second, instead of buying gear rent it for a Summer. Many shops will let you rent a set of gear for the Summer and then buy the gear at the end of the year if you like it. Check out the gear that local divers are using during their dives. Ask them what they like about their gear. Experienced local divers can save you from making poor gear purchase decisions.
Finally, I really think you should gain experience in a wetsuit before stepping into a drysuit. You will pick up buoyancy skills faster in the wetsuit and those skills will translate better to the tropics. If you find that you really like local diving you will eventually buy a drysuit. Walk before you run.
Good luck!
Re: Starting Dry Suit - arcFlash - 04-21-2009
I could have been clearer... I already owned the clothes and the original undies I bought with the suit are way WAY too hot and I can't move in the suit with them on. Dove them 3 times. So I paid $400 for nothing. I didn't want to make two mistakes so I went to my backpack for answers.
Unless you needed multipurpose outdoor wear I would not recommend buying multipurpose outdoor wear for diving.
Re: Starting Dry Suit - LKunze - 04-21-2009
LOL...amen to that! :-[ I'd have saved a lot of money had I waited and tried different gear from the start before going crazy with the purchases. I did a lot of buying and selling gear my first couple years of diving that's for sure.
Re: Starting Dry Suit - scubadog76 - 04-21-2009
Check with some of the shops in town as far as taking a test dive. Some will probably be open to letting you try one out after a class at Square or during a fun dive. How a suit fits in the store could be very different in the water. For instance: I had my eye on a suit the had attached, stiff boots that came up to mid calf. I hated how they fit me, filled with air and how clumsy they felt when I kicked. The store fitting didn't tell me that.
Also, bring your fins with. You may have to factor a new pair of fins into the cost of the suit as well. Especially if you are looking at rockboots. Check with the shops in town that do repairs as well. Find out if that is a suit that they can put seals and dry glove systems on in house or if they have to send it away for a month while you sit on shore and watch you buddies have a great dive.
You can narrow down your search some if you decide if you want front or rear zippers. Rear zippers are less bulky, front zips will keep you from peeing your pants while you wait for your buddy to unzip you :-[ See ya in the water, J