air fills

[ballfrog]

I don’t understand why the LDS don’t charge air fills by the volume needed.

There is one in Mt. Dora Florida that does that.  It struck me as odd that they'd go through all that extra work of gauging the bottle and looking up the volume in a table to calculate the cost.

It cost me a bit more for fills since I usually suck my tanks down to a vacuum but I did appreciate it when it cost me less than a buck to top off my pony.

[scubadog76]

Any word on how the development of the USB to DIN/ K valve yoke is going?

[LKunze]

It's going pretty good but I guess they aren't able to fill HP tanks yet.  Word has it they may be coming out with a HP modem in the near future. ;D

[grumpie]

Guys, I really didn't think that I would create all this trouble when I  mention the price of air fills.
SORRY

[Indigo Blues]

Grumpie, you know what they say, "When you open a can of worms they can never go back into the same can they came out of because they expand!"

[jasondbaker]

This thread pops up every year and is always fun to watch. 

I've always loved the idea of a group-owned compressor. Make it accessible 24x7 in an area secured by a member pin code.  Require that each member get certified to use the compressor and fill tanks. 

To me it's never really been about the price (although I still want to see a discounted fill card). I want the convenience.  I would be in heaven if the compressor was located within 20 minutes and available 24x7.

[mattd]

I've heard rumors of a fill express or something that works like a vending machine.  Its basically in a tiny room and has a credit card type deal.  You put in your card and fill your tank with air, banked nitrox, etc.  It has a flow meter and charges you for the cf you take.

I imagine someone goes in once a week or something and fills up the banks and otherwise it is self serve.  It sounds like a great idea.

[DetectorGuy]

USDiver, I am not a shop owner and I am just trying to justify the cost of fills. I am probably wrong on this but this is the way I see it:
Many of you were diving prior to Al Gore inventing the internet  ???.
I wasn't diving 20 years ago, so I don't know what it was like to have a "good deal" on a fill. I think that 20 years ago was probably the golden age for dive shops where the only competition was with another dive shop in the area. 20 years ago we obviously didn't have the online "dive shops" that everyone is buying their gear from to save $2. 20 years ago the dive shops did not need to scrape every nickel out of a divers wet fingers to try and make ends meet. 20 years ago the air fills were probably easier to "give away" at $2/fill as a customer relations kinda deal. If you haven't noticed that this is not 1990 and times are tough for a lot of businesses. The LDS need to keep their head above water financially or they won't be in business. With all the competition from online sales, they need to make money where they can. One way they can is to charge the going rate for air. The compressors are not cheap. The insurance for that compressor is not cheap. The rent on their shop is not cheap. The employee payroll (and their insurance) is not cheap. The utilities for their building is not cheap. Divide the amount of fills they do per month by the cost of these things and see how hard it would be to stay in business. You really can't count their retail sales as profit as they have already lost so much of this to internet sales that I don't think it would add up to much. They have money coming in from training but that is kinda cyclical too. After a point, a diver has all the certifications he or she wants (or that is available locally).
I was frustrated when Smith Diving went out of business. I too had 4 fill cards that I had purchased along with many of you who had a similar amount. Some of you may have bought those cards as a way to get 10 fills for $40 and it was all about you. Some of you may have bought those fill cards as an investment in that LDS in hopes that if enough of us did that, the LDS could make rent for another month. Along with Smith Diving being a great shop who always filled my tanks to the top, They were a Naui shop. I am partial to Naui as I think they offer an actual certification instead of a watered down "get 'em in, and get 'em out" kinda deal. Are there any other Naui dive shops in Minnesota? I don't think there are. We had it and it slipped away when we weren't looking. Would I like to see fills for a buck cheaper? Sure I would, but I would rather not lose anymore dive shops like Smith just because I can't handle coughing up another buck a fill. Anyway... You can't put a price on a good time. Hope I didn't piss any of you off and you all still let me swim with ya.
John

[mattd]

FWIW, I filled up my tanks today for local diving and paid the going rate in VA.

My pony was $12 for an air fill.  My steel tanks were $16 each for a nitrox fill.  I also paid $10 for the privilege of going on a shop organized fun dive and $18 to get in to the quarry.  So, prices are higher here, but if that's the fair price to participate in the sport, that's what I'll pay.  I still won't pay $500 for a BCD I can get online for $250.  But, I did pick up a line cutter for about the same price as online.  When the price is fair, I'll buy it in the shop.

As an aside, perhaps I don't really get the whole "social club" thing about an LDS.  I'm not sure I have ever dover with someone I happened to meet at an LDS.  I dove with people I met here and other places.  So, the social side of the activity isn't coming from the LDS anymore, at least for me.  The internet seems to be a better conduit for finding people interested in the sport than the LDS.

[Deltaforce]

DG:

No hard feelings at all - I'm enjoying the conversation about a meaningful topic (not just the price of air, but how an LDS should think about their customers).

Regarding being an old-timer -- I'm guilty.  Had to chuckle when Trinity brought up the VSD story -- I'm still diving with an Al80 I bought from Jerry in 1979.

I appreciate your comments, but if you believe that a $5 difference in what a LDS charges in air fills is the thing keeping them in business, you really do not understand the LDS business model.  Almost all of their income is derived from getting people into their shops to try SCUBA, getting them to sign up for a class, sell them their first set of gear, and get them to come back for more training.

I just would like to see more perks for the old timers and the loyal customer