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Who disagrees with DIR and why?
09-12-2004, 09:16 PM,
Re:Who disagrees with DIR and why?
I tried wearing my in this case backup around my neck and breathing off my long hose this weekend. I found the rig under my chin distracting and with out a light to rout the hose arround the long lose pulled out of my belt and was a pain in the @$$. I still like having it for my buddie but prefer it tucked in by my chest.
I spoke to 2 "DIR" divers that are nolonger in the area that were very insulting when a said I used to dive a BP and wings but prefer my Sherwood Outback and it can do wvery thing a bp and wing setup can.
MNLakeDiver (aka Jim)<br />The water is so cold I can see my breath !
09-12-2004, 09:31 PM, (This post was last modified: 09-12-2004, 09:33 PM by jasondbaker.)
Re:Who disagrees with DIR and why?
Jim, you should dive with one of us "long hose" people sometime (that's not meant to sound kinky). My guess is that your config may need to be tweaked a little bit.

It sounds like your backup bungee loop is too small. Try increasing the size of the loop until it is no longer a distraction.

Your long hose really wants to be looped around something -- either a canister light or knife/cutters. I mounted cutters on the waistband of my old seaquest BC.

It is a common misconception that a backplate+wing will make someone a better diver. Not necessary true. A backplate+wing is a more versatile tool than a BC.

Regarding those two DIR divers: don't hate the game hate the player.
09-12-2004, 09:42 PM, (This post was last modified: 09-12-2004, 10:08 PM by scubadog76.)
Re:Who disagrees with DIR and why?
I use the aqualung slim Octo that can be handed straight to the recipient without flipping it around. It works great in the drills that I do practice-THANK YOU VERY MUCH JASONBAKER! As far as the control thing...I have no issue with sharing my primary with my buddy, it's not ever going to be my first choice! Out of air divers know 2 things. 1)They are out of air! 2) you've got bubbles coming from your face! Don't try to tell me they won't even try to grab Both!!!
Bouyency thingy: I'm thinking in the lines of having to share drysuit inflators(although I heard DIR divers had a way of filling their drysuits with air That non-DIR divers havn't yet learned Wink)
And sure we can go work on our OOG's. You may get stangled when I go for your octo ;D
&quot;Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It’s what separates us from the animals…except the weasel. &quot;<br />&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Homer J. Simpson
09-13-2004, 12:02 AM,
Re:Who disagrees with DIR and why?

It sounds like you have one of those Aqualung LPOs. Let me relate something for everyone's edification. I used to have one of those and myself and another Aqualung technician worked and worked and never could get that piece of sh*t to breathe like anything approximating a regulator of ANY quality. We couldn't get ANY of them to breathe decent - mine or anyone else's. Aqualung even discontinued it - THEY gave up on it. Aqualung makes some fine products but that one was an oops. I'm just relating some real world experience with a troubling piece of gear. Sh*t, I might go for your primary too if you handed me that piece of excriment. Sorry dude, not trying to put YOU down but that octo really is crap.

Safety first, ego last, actions speak louder than words or c-cards.
09-13-2004, 07:16 AM,
Re:Who disagrees with DIR and why?
My Octo works fine Dude. And my thoughts about the DIR OOG would still be the same even if I were diving the "cadilac" gear that all of you seem to own. Every now and then I guess some bad gear might get into the mix as well. Halcyon had a recall on BC inflators. Jablonski must have merged with aqualung?
&quot;Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It’s what separates us from the animals…except the weasel. &quot;<br />&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Homer J. Simpson
09-13-2004, 07:59 AM,
Re:Who disagrees with DIR and why?
All the wholistic BS aside, what I dislike about DIR is that there is one right way to do it, and that's it. There are no options. Changes only take place when they are passed down from the hand of the mystical dive gods. That thinking process simply ignores reality, hence one of the common euphemisms for DIR.

I think the second or third chapter of the IANTD Encyclopedia of Technical Diving is on gear configuration (which I know is only a segment of DIR, but is what we focus on most here) at some point in the chapter (I don't have it here in front of me) there is a list of key points to consider in configuring gear. One of those is "Be open-minded!" In my opinion being open minded means acknowledging all the possible solutions and selecting the one that makes the most sense for the situation.

Arguing about long hose versus short, or donating the primary versus secondary is great stuff, as there is a legitimate exchange of ideas taking place. The argument "if you just practiced it my way, you'd understand" goes both ways. I could say the same about rebreathers vs. OC Wink

09-13-2004, 08:50 AM, (This post was last modified: 09-13-2004, 08:58 AM by beeger.)
Re:Who disagrees with DIR and why?
It's not about "Cadillac" dive gear, or about Halcyon, or about Aqua Lung. What it is about is thinking about your buddy. You mentioned "… giving up control …" which I'm not sure I understand: you donate from your mouth because you know it is working and you know that the most urgent need is to get your buddy gas. You give control back to the person who has likely lost (or is losing) control. You are able to survive just fine without a reg to inhale from for the 5 seconds it takes to get a backup into your mouth (your average exhalation cycle probably takes longer than that when you are breathing off a reg). I also don't understand about not being able to locate your backup underneath your chin ... if your hand can find your head you can find your backup. (FWIW I have, on occasion, been able to get my backup into my mouth without using my hands.) Regarding fighting buoyancy this is another benefit of the long hose. It gives more play between the divers for each diver to get situated for the ascent up. You say, "It's everybodys goal to help out their buddy but you gotta make sure your always in a position to rescue them." I agree. That's why what I've said above is so important. In a OOG/OOA situation you are RESCUING them. Diving a long hose/donating what your breathing made me much more confident that an OOG/OOA situation could be handled than I ever felt using an octopus.

And I can’t let this one go without a little good-natured ribbing: I know the LPO (if that is indeed what you have). I've serviced the LPO. I used one for years as an octopus for my pool reg set when teaching. I’ll just say this: I sold the LPO a couple years ago and now use an impeccably maintained 1965 Aqua Lung metal box second Big Grin in the pool which is a better breather and a heck of a lot more durable (darn near exact copy of the current Conshelf). Like I said, it’s not about “Cadillac” dive gear.

&quot;Treat people as if they were what they ought to be and you help them to become what they are capable of being.&quot; - Johann W. von Goethe
09-13-2004, 10:57 AM,
Re:Who disagrees with DIR and why?
OOG and donating your long hose.

I have overhauled regualtors that had LIVE snails living inside the second stages. I certainly wouldn't want to stick that into an OOA diver's mouth when they needed it most. By breathing my long hose I know that what I give them will work.

Another thing, that I have actually seen for myself, happened in my instructor class years ago, but has stayed with me until this time. Two of the other candidates were demonstrating an octo ascent. One diver gave the OOA buddy his octo. The buddy grabbed it and inhaled a huge mouth full of water. He took it out and pressed the purge- lots of air comes flowing out. So, he puts it back in and tries to breath off of it again- more water and a quick ascent to the top of the pool.

It turns out that the diaphram had a huge tear in it and was totally flooded with water the hole time. Just pushing the purge button would release the air, but wouldn't indicate a problem with the regulator. If this person had been breathing the primary it wouldn't have gone unnoticed until it was needed most. By actually using the regualtor that you donate you are 100% sure it will work when you need it to.

GUE wasn't the first agency to teach breathing the long hose. That goes to NASDS who was teaching it back in the 70's for openwater diving. Of course, the 'long hose' of the day was 3', instead of 7', but the idea was still there.

The times I have had to bail out another diver having my 7' hose made things much easier than they would have been with a short hose.

As far as DIR being about dive gear, I think it's more about being a good buddy, proper fitness level for the dive being done, and proper gases for the depths being encountered- lack of narcosis.

When it comes down to the dive gear I still prefer to buy a simple bottom timer, over a $1,000 computor, and use a simple pair of rubber fins, instead of $200 split fins. I am not certain that when you add up all of the costs of gear that DIR is any more expensive than other configurations.

Just my experiences here.

&quot;Ignorance begets confidence more often than does knowledge.&quot; -Charles Darwin
09-13-2004, 11:16 AM,
Re:Who disagrees with DIR and why?
every one that talks about donating their primary uses the example of a octo that do not work due to neglect ect. I do use my octo on every dive weekend. so I know it is working. the end result with giving a octo on long hose is the same as giving your priamary on long hose. If you want to assume toe octo is bad then I can assume your backup is bad and now their are 2 paniced divers as the first was out of air and took the only good air source from his buddie.
do I think this will happen. not if you dive with a buddie that takes care of their equipment. it comes down to haveing working gear and knowing your buddies level and experiance.
MNLakeDiver (aka Jim)<br />The water is so cold I can see my breath !
09-13-2004, 11:49 AM,
Re:Who disagrees with DIR and why?

Let's go with everyone having working equipment in an OOA situation and work it from there. While I have never been in a restriction that required me to exit behind another diver who was breathing off of my 7' primary, I have found in a couple of air-share experiences, all due to the other person free-flowing, that having a hose longer than 3' or 40", whichever it is, has been beneficial during the event. I can just as easily go with a 5' or a 6' hose except that a 5' is a bit short for me to wrap and a 6' is not quite long enough to go under a light.

The big thing about the length is that it gives both divers room to operate. I would much rather have space to face the other diver, swim comfortably side by side, be able to more easily deal with equipment issues, etc. Given that I think that a long hose is of more use, why don't I make it my backup then? One reason is that if the 7' backup were stowed in something like bungies I would have a tough time putting it away if it were deployed and I didn't need it. That is not necessarily an uncommon occurance. In one of the air shares the other person's valve was shutdown. After a few minutes it was reopened and not free-flowing. We exited with him breathing his own reg. I re-looped my primary with no help. When I have divemastered advanced classes at Wazee during the cooler months I have put my backup in on the deep dive and had my primary in one hand ready to hand off because I have seen several free flows below 80' there. When the class heads up I re-loop the primary and go back to breathing off of it.

So, I have found a longer hose to be useful in practice, not just because I read it on the internet somewhere and am trying to emulate some "dive gods".



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