This "not diving" is getting to me..

[freedivernd]

I'm on my way out to check out a local pond that I hear can get to 20' deep or so, I hear they're catching perch in it. I think during the summer it's a bit of swamp but maybe now it's divable if you stay out of the muck at the bottom.

I'm think I'm ready for another warm water vacation. Can you feel my pain? :-[

Fred

[freedivernd]

There, there.... I feel a lot better now. And hey, how about that extra line?

Vis was terrible, could only see about 15" of the line and that was with the flashlight, even held onto the line on the way down and up for fear I'd lose it. Couldn't even see my fins under the water when I was sitting in the hole. Can't say it's a place I'd run to for another swim.

Still amazes me that you absolutely cannot see the hole in the ice from below. I came up one time and was on the wrong side of the rope and even then could not see it, had to feel around for it. Crazy. Getting a little more comfortable under the ice though...little better down times this time around.

Fred

[jasondbaker]

Fred,

Are you attaching the line to your body using a harness or are you just holding on to the line? I'd feel better if you said you were using a harness setup. We would hate to lose your weekly insights...

[freedivernd]

Jason,

I fastened one line to my weight belt, probably not the best place but I was in a hurry to go under. The other was the anchor line. I'm going to get a harness though, I've seen some at the surplus stores that I think will work real good.

Fred

[jasondbaker]

Yes, let's think that one through. If you had an emergency and had to drop your weights, well... I would be interested to know what types of harnesses ARE suitable for ice diving. Is this something that is DIY -- some 2" webbing and stainless steel clips? Will a "rock climbing" harness work?

[DanL]

Fred,
Apologies for being "preachy", but I'm really worried about you! I don't know squat about ice diving, but I think a line tender let's out a heavy life line and then pulls it back in as the diver surfaces - a controlled and positive link to safety.
Using a makeshift harness with a loose line seems nuts to me. What if your line got snagged or anything went wrong. Free diving gives you no time margin for error on getting back to that little invisible hole that provides AIR.
Why don't you take an ice diving course and get the correct equipment and a knowledgable buddy(ies) to tend your line with the ability to pull you back to safety.
Sorry. I love the reports of your adventures, but really am getting a little concerned.
Dan

[freedivernd]

but I think a line tender let's out a heavy life line and then pulls it back in as the diver surfaces - a controlled and positive link to safety.

DanL,
That's exactly as was done today, only with an instruction of at 30 seconds stop letting out the line and start slowly retrieving if I'm not visible. Heavy line I'm not sure about. I did have one along but used the lighter one, rated at tons of tensil strength and brand new I thought should be sufficient. Anticipated down time was between 12 - 15 seconds, and nearer to 20 if I was comfortable and there was anything to see.
I used a quick clip (can't remember what they are called) to fasten the rope to my belt so I think that had I tangled up in a tree (unlikely, considering this pond is in the middle of a field, but you never know what's down there) I would have dropped that line and continued with my hand on the anchor line. More concerned about a self-entanglement issue but it wasn't. The fella with me today could feel me draw the line out and feel the slack on my way back up. Because of my rapid ascent he was not able to keep it taught, so here in lies one of my problems with the tender line, if the slack rope had hooked on something, that would have hindered my ascent. Fastened to my weight belt I would have had two quick options, drop the weight belt or unhook the quick release from the tender line, both one hand operations. I'm still not so sure about that tender line while doing these shallow dives, but today we gave it a try, mainly because of the poor vis, and it did not hinder my dive. If I was diving in known water, going for deep depths or long bottom times I would definetly use a tender line.

The harnesses I've seen are made of 1" or more webbing and would well serve the purpose of fastening a line. But, then does the harness become an entanglement issue, or does someone pulling on you while your trying to hold your breath become an issue?

I have been through many trees and treetops and one thing that always made me comfortable was the only thing that could possibly get entangeled was my mask or my weight belt. Hate to lose a mask under the ice (no fun clearing a mask while breath hold diving), but then having ahold of that anchor rope would still get me back to the opening.

I am not saying there is not risk, what sport doesn't have risk? I guess I do my best to approach it safely, which included giving this tender line a lot of thought. Since I'm not putting myself into a black-out situation, I am staying shallow, and my down times are very short (compared to what I do in training) I am covering myself well for anything that could go wrong and I have thought a lot about the situation I want to be in if something does. Mainly, a long way from being out of air, a line up to the top, bouyant, warm, not fastened too permanently to anything, and a friend on the surface to certify me crazy.

No proplem on the preaching DanL, concern is appreciated.

Maybe I have given my ice dives more thought then I have let on... (but maybe not enough, and that's a good reason to be bouncing the topic around here)

Fred

[DanL]

Fred,
Knowing your thoroughness and expertise, realize that you have given this much thought. Bottom line, it seems that you're a pioneer in free ice diving and just have to work it out.
Keep posting - it helps us all get through the winter.
A thought - would a very bright flashing strobe at the hole help you find it if you became disoriented or lost your safety lines? Maybe a few feet below the hole?
Dan

[freedivernd]

DanL,
The very bright light a few feet below the ice sounds like a good idea. Dropped right in the middle of the opening. I hate flashing lights so maybe a good steady bulb/flashlight of some sort. On my list of things to look into. I have also thought that a good light in my tender's hands to guide me toward the hole should I lose the marker line, although vis through this ice was not very good because it was so rough on the surface, a strong light should still have shined through. (my buddy yesterday saw me come up on the wrong side of the anchor rope, and watched me feel around to the other side for the opening) The ice I was under the first time was like looking through a window.

Good ideas Dan, and thanks for the suggestion(s).

I actually have some ideas for a short horizontal swim sometime in the future. I'm thinking about these 4'-6' long screw in poles I've seen made out of about 1/2 inch steel rod with an eye on one end and a short auger type screw on the other. I could drop down, turn one in, thread a rope through, on the next dive take the rope a short distance horizontally, anchor another rod, and tie the rope off. Maybe with lights attached to the poles, I could turn them on and off and leave them there until the batteries needed replacing. Placing the poles and rope would have been a good thing to do last fall before the ice formed. I'm thinking this could extend some of my spearfishing area, BTW - spearfishing for carp was what got me going under the ice in the first place, and so far I haven't even taken the spear gun along. Maybe the season will be/is done before I even get it all figured out. In fact, I haven't even seen a fish yet under the ice.

For sure I'm going to have to get a whole lot more comfortable under the ice and get even just the basics of being under the ice in good control before I seriously consider trying all this. Still lot's of bugs to work out on just doing a simple, safe, dive.
I have to admit though, freediving under the ice definetly has its place among the exciting things I've tried.

Fred

[DanL]

Fred,
Ain't vacation wonderful - I'm sitting here today checking out all the dive info I can find. Just posted notes on our Grand Cayman trip.
Hey - on screwing in line and lights under the ice...
As the ice thickens over time, won't your lights, line, fittings become encased in the constantly thickening ice? The ice thickens from the bottom, doesn't it?
Another thought. With line use, even w/quick release snaps, etc, wouldn't it be good to have a knife/shears/line cutter along just in case? Nothing quicker than cutting out of an entanglement. (We'll get so much gear on you that you'll think your a scuba diver!!!)
I'm going to take an ice diving course just because of your adventures! Jean - what's up? When do we start?
Dan