Pinnacle Black Ice questions

[Scouter]

Hi All
Newbie here - well sorta - I got my original certification in 1974 but I have been away for a while. Now I am looking to get back into Scuba and have a lot of equipment questions. I may become a pain around here for a while - please bare with me.

I am considering a dry suit. Currently leaning towards a Pinnacle black ice or a DUI CF200 or FLX 50/50.

Comments pro and con for each would be very welcome.

Specifically are the DUI suits worth the extra $
Is the custom sizing of the DUI worth the extra $
Is the Merino lining of the black ice as nice as it sounds?
With the Merinao lining can I get by with a light weight under garment?
Should the black ice be sized to a larger under garment and what negative affects would that have if I then wore a light weight undergarment during a warmer dive?

Hey I am sorry but I am full of questions about the gear that is available now. Soooo much to decide and sooo little knowledge - Help - help- and THANK YOU for any help in advance. 

Brian

[Hydro]

i guess it depends on where (and when) you plan on diving... most lakes in minnesota only get warm on the surface. remember with a drysuit you can adjust your insulating amount by how much you inflate it. i wear pretty much the same amount of insulation every dive, if i get too warm i just vent air out.

i have merino lining in my hood, and it seems a little warmer than unlined... wool seems to hold water better too, so it might become a pain to have to dry an entire suit lined with it.

i've got a bare suit, and i appreciate their elastic cumberbund instead of suspenders/crotch strap.

[Scouter]

Mostly Minnesota diving; Lakes, Mines, and Superior.

Ah - a good point about the drying.

I have an engineering background and think it would be possible to build a drying rack/stand from perforated PVC pipe and a fan to help with the drying if the suit was more comfortable/conforming/warmer.

More info - more info - more info  >

How much/heavy inner wear do people wear for Superior diving to 100-150'? Winter diving through the ice? Summer diving in Minnesota lakes 30-60'?

Again thanks for the replies

Brian

[oscar127]

I have a Pinnacle Kodak and I used it all last winter on ice dives. I would two dives in a row and I stayed warm on both of them. 

[Austin]

Just curious, why are you leaning towards the crushed neoprene?  The Black is, the 200 is, and the 50/50 is, well... 50 / 50.

What I dive (over 60 local dives per year):  Custom fit ($100.00 more) Pinnacle Evolution II with a Fourth Element undergarment.  Happy with it and never cold.  Like Hydro said, if you get a little warm, vent some.  Hard to beat the price on a Evolution II.  Got a buddy that swears by his Dive Rite 905, others like Diving Concepts, and others only wear DUI.

May want to do some shopping at the LDS's and see who has suits to try.  I will plug Scuba Center, as I know they stock many sizes of Diving Concepts.

Good luck, the "best" dry suits are debated often.

[DetectorGuy]

I don't know much about the Pinnacle Black Ice suit. I have a tri lam (TLS se) from DUI. I love the suit!!! The tri laminate suit is a shell suit and it will dry very quickly. I have heard it is not as durable as the DUI CF 200 suit and that info was direct from DUI. My suit is a shoulder zip and I would advise anyone not to get a shoulder zip unless their last name is Houdini. You need to be a contortionist to zip and unzip it your self (but hey... that's what buddies are for right?) The built in socks on the DUI TLS se suit are made from CF 200 material and so is the "warm neck" (that is the ring around the neck that is supposed to keep your neck a bit warmer) so this CF 200 material dries much slower than the rest of the suit. DUI has these "rock boots" that go on over the attached socks to protect the feet and socks on rocky, sharp surfaces. After 50 dives in the DUI suit I ripped the neck seal in it. I blame that mainly on my wife using this air purifier (that I later found out creates OZONE) near where I hang the suit and that degraded the latex neck seal pre-maturely. So now it is in DUI's shop getting pimped out. It is gonna come back like a hot rod! Zipper thigh pockets, Zip seals installed in the neck and wrists, Reflective tape all over, CF 200 knee and elbow pads. I was going to get the Kevlar Knee pads but DUI claims the CF 200 material is more durable than Kevlar even though the drying times will suffer. I was gonna put in a relief zipper instead of a P-valve but the bill was already about $1200 so I will wait on that for now.

As far as insulation... I know people that use Merino wool lined wetsuits and I am not sure but I think Merino wool is kinda "old school". I think that with the new technology these days they have better insulators now but I could be wrong on that. I use Weezle wear for undergarments for Ice diving and I haven't been cold yet. My limits are this: 70-80 degrees 3mm shorty wetsuit, 50-70 degrees 7mm wetsuit with attached 7mm hood, 31-50 degrees, Weezle wear (extreme) with a dry suit, 7mm wet hood and 7mm henderson wet gloves. Some of the ice dives have been in very cold air temps (aproaching 20 below zero with a stiff wind) and not even get chilled. We always bring a turkey fryer and heat water to pour over the ourselves after we get out not to warm up but so that we can get out of the frozen solid suit. Ice diving is a blast but it is very labor intensive. To get the most bang for the buck you should plan Ice dives early in the day and cut two holes and dive them both before dark. this way you can cover more ground but it is literally almost twice the work. The PVC pipe drier is a great idea and anything you can do to take the labor out of diving makes the whole thing sweeter. Good luck on your purchase but make sure you weed through as much info as you can before purchasing. A dry suit from any manufacturer will not last for the rest of my life but when I spend money on anything I want to make the longest term investment that I can make. Remember: Quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten!

[Scouter]

Austin:

[doug67]

I rented a DUI from Going Under in Osseo when I did my drysuit class so you could go there to try one. They have a pool to so you mite get to just try one there. I liked the DUI and thats what I got. If you see the DUI that Todd from Mn School of Diving has you wont question the durability, hes had that one forever. Hope this helps.

[Scouter]

Austin:
Fair question. I am just starting my research.

I am leaning toward the crushed neoprene for the warmth as well as it is suppose to comform better to the body. Or so I have been advised so far. Alway open for additional opinions. $ is secondary for me as I am in a position to spend a little more to get what I want.

I am touring the LDS's and am asking a lot of questions. So far I have not seen a Black Ice or the higher end Dui's at any of the shops. They generally stock lower end stuff from what I have seen so far. At least when it comes to the dry suits. I learned today that I just missed the DUI dog days. I haven't been to Scuba Center yet but I will get there in the near future.

Thanks for your feedback 

DetectorGuy:
Wow Lots of good stuff. My thinking right now (always subject to change) is that a crushed neoprene would be more conforming, therefore less restrictive in the water that Tri Laminates. Am I wrong on this?  ??? Would a custom fit TriLam be as good?

Good info on the zipper location. I was thinking front entry with the diagonal zipper.

I have seen the DUI rock boots and I really liked the idea of footies with the laced rock boots over. Seemed like a durable idea which would be warm as well as the control of air to the feet by tightening or loosening the laces on the boots.

Sounds like you are getting a great setup. You obviously know what you want based on experience. This is what I lack so I need to be diligent in my research so I don't make too many mistakes that cost big $.

The interest in the Merino wool is based on the Black Ice being lined with it. I am trying to get a feel for how warm it is and how much insulation the lining of the Black Ice provides as well as how much additional insulation people wear to keep warm.

You have helped me a lot with the information you have shared. I'll have to check out the weezle wear. Does it come in multiple weights? If it does how much is enough to keep you warm?

Again Thanks all - keep it coming I am a big sponge right now. I can't get enough knowledge.
Brian

[DetectorGuy]

I was talking to this young fella named Grumpie, and he told me that if I was to make a drying rack out of PVC that I should use a womans hair drier as the fan as they have a round outlet thingy that would mate up nicely to a PVC "t". Just a thought...