air fills

[Seal]

It is interesting to see the different sides being presented.  The post I put on stating that the price of air would be around 12 dollars did not come off the top of my head it was in one of our dive trade mag. about 5 years ago and I would think we have some inflation since then.  I can see your point when you say you have to travel a distance to get your tanks filled.  When I started diving back in the sixties we had to drive 55 miles to get a tank filled but unless you live in the metro area it is not uncommon to have to go sixty miles or more to get a fill.  I have done the math and it is usually cheaper to purchase a number of more tanks and travel to get air than it is to get a compressor.  Yes you can get a smaller compressor at a good price but remember that the price is based the cfm that it puts out.  If you have a dive center you are not going to have a small compressor as your clients will not be willing to stand in line waiting for the cylinder to be filled.  That is why the cost for a system is high for a dive center.  Another thing not being taken into consideration is if you have your own compressor there is still cost of up keep each year and insurance if you are going to be filling for others and the is an expensive fee.  It would be great if someone came back after a dive and sued you for saying you gave him bad air when you taught he was your friend.
As far as internet I tell my students that if you do not buy from my dive center at least buy from another dive center.  If we do not support the scuba shops it will not be long and there will be none and then where will we get instruction, service, and air and all that good information about dive sites and stuff when we do stop in to get our cylinders filled.  Look at all the dive centers that have gone belly up in the last three years in the metro area and most of those have been around for years and do not think they had intended on closing up. I do like the fact that divers price shop and if you give your local dive center a chance you might be surprised how the prices will be to the internet if you are pricing the same items.  A good consumer remembers that when we are purchasing a product we are buying service. A dive center will spend a great deal of time with a client sizing and explaining why he recommends the equipment he is selling.  I think it is disappointing to see that client come in a week later with the same equipment that he has purchased off the internet.  If you are not going to support him then don't waste his time.  Lets keep our sport fun and it will be a win win for all.

[joekarels]

Roger that.

[arcFlash]

If the LDS around us had great e-com sites they would compete against dive shops in other states just and they do today only on a level field. If they did a good job they could knock out dives shops in Punxsutawney and we'd have more local stores to shop.

Problem solved and everyone wins except the shadow fearing folk of Punxsutawney.

[scubadog76]

There is a price to doing business, and a business that keeps that in mind, will stay in business.  An air compressor is a very spendy item to buy AND maintain.  Sure a shop could do fine with a new compressor for a year or two charging $5.00 a fill, but then it breaks down.  Would you still support them if they said "blew a piston, have to charge $9.00 until that is paid off".  Why should a dive shop have to sell air like a restaurant has to sell  seasonal lobster?  Another thing to keep in mind, is that just about  that you enjoy doing in your free time will cost  around $10.00 an hour(give/take)  A round of golf, a movie outing, canoe rental, ect...  Air fills certainly fall into that bracket  (unless you are really bad with your breathing) I am glad I don't have to worry about a compressor, personally.  If you still wwant to own your own airfill system:

[mattd]

I'm probably wearing out my welcome in this thread, but......


I get better service from e-shops most of the time.  The stuff I want almost always has to be special ordered and they get it to me faster.  None of them have hoodwinked me for a fill card either.

That said, I still try to shop local when I can.  I have been "that guy" shopping in the store and buying on line several times.  Did you ever think that, maybe, they were trying to give the business to the LDS, but the pricing was wrong and they lost the sale?  Instead of being grumpy about it, work harder on the next sale.  The last time I did this was when I switched to Apeks regs.  Its probably Aqualung's fault and not the LDS (but being the main consumer from Aqualung, the shops are ultimately in control of letting those policies stay), but I got quotes for over $900 per set on the regs I wanted.  I got one set shipped from Europe and another from an LDS in a far away state for $600 per set.  That's $600 saved by not shopping at the LDS.  I can't be paying that much hedging on service and availability of air fills.  I would have liked to buy local, but not to the tune of $600.

I still maintain that if people want air, and all the LDS go out of business because they want charity sales and aren't competitive, someone will setup a shop and sell air.  They'll do it without the overhead of pools and retail space and they'll be able to sell it at a fair price.

[Terry]

                   John (DetectorGuy) and Steve (Arcflash) I'll continue to dive with you guys, even if you do piss me off. I like scoring my air at Scuba Center, in Eagan, 4 miles from my home an unlimited air card for a,,,, good deal dont know what it cost, but it seemed like a good deal at the time. I'm going to recommend to them that when their fill whips need to be replaced, they have them made 10' longer, so when I'm waiting for them to be filled, like I always do, I can slip them into the pool, to get a better fill and at the same time help warm up the pool water. I look at an unlimited air card as a deal cut to the divers that will still be diving this spring, not a 10 fills for $40 card, hell, I've filled more tanks then that at one time.    TRINITY

[ballfrog]

I have done the math and it is usually cheaper to purchase a number of more tanks and travel to get air than it is to get a compressor.

Heehee.  And he sold me a compressor! 

But he's right, I've acumulated ten tanks and it's usually more convienient to drag them to a store weekly than to drag the compressor around.  I still use it when I'm home and it's in that 80 to 100 mile round trip to get fills distance, but I'll shell out the greenbacks for quick, hot fills if I'm close to a store.

[ballfrog]

Trinity,

The pool warming would be a nice benefit, but how about you just bring your own ice chest full of ice?

[Terry]

                      I would be happy to supply a bag of ice BF, thats how it use to done, most every shop had a water tank to keep tanks cool while being filled, Club Scuba, Vets, Scuba Daddys, heck I even remember a few that are still in businness today, Scuba Center did and so did Fantasea. When it originally showed up it was promoted as giving you a more accurate pressure fill, (due to water being a much (approx. 27X) better conductor of heat then air) and a safety that in the event of tank rupture the water would help dissipate the energy released. On high volume weekends, like July 4 and Labor day, the shop often had ice in the tank to help keep it cool. Then it all came to an end under the concern that provoiding water in close proxmity to a filling station would help introduce water into tanks, and I even remember hearing the the Compressed Gas Association no longer recommended it, (I would like to hear their reasoning on that one.) I never had a problem with moisture in any of my cylinders after years of seeing them hooked up and then laid down into the tank to be fully submerged while being filled, and would gladly accept that "potential" exposure over the exposure of your typical Carib. divemaster cracking the valve to "blow" salt water into my first stage of my reg between dives as it dripped off my gear, and his dreds, lol.    TRINITY

[mattd]

I don't think its a moisture thing.  I've read other places that it is harder on the tank to cool it like that vs letting it slowly warm and cool.

I'm not a metallurgist, so I'm not going to claim to completely understand it, but it had something to do with weakening or stressing the steel.