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Shooter · 01-19-2009, 09:26 AM,

It sure is nice diving with comm gear 8)!

grumpie · 01-19-2009, 09:40 AM,

Remember KISS, when in trouble do you really have time for all those pulls? DRI uses the ones I sent you. Do you really want to reinvent the wheel?
grumpie......

grumpie · 01-19-2009, 03:52 PM,

Some place back here some one mention NTEC, which is the same thing as KISS and standardizing a

nd if you take a class or two from a training agency you will see this.

MAXFACTOR · 01-19-2009, 09:29 PM,

THIS STINKS......

In my opinion any more then 3 pulls for anything under the ice is absolutely crazy.

WHY CAN'T THE ACTIVE ICE DIVERS IN MINNESOTA GET THIS. WE SHOULD ALL MAKE A MINNESOTA STANDARD.

THE "AGENCIES" HAVE HAD PLENTY OF TIME TO MAKE A STANDARD YET THEY HAVEN'T COLLABORATED AND THERE IS JUST WAY TO MUCH TERRRITORIAL POSITIONING BETWEEN THEM.

HAVE ICE RULES. THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE UNDER ICE VS. UNDER WATER.

Just a small thought... what if the guy is now is narced or unconscious. he isn't gonna give 4 pulls.

If I'm on the surface, and I give you a 1 pull to check ok and I don't get any response, I"M PULLING YOU BACK HOME.. and I'm mean back home FAST. Getting the Ready diver to get in the water and just about ready to call 911

LETS STANDARDIZE THIS.. My next ice dive is in the end of the month.

MAXFACTOR

grumpie · 01-19-2009, 10:39 PM,

In the early 60, all the dive shops got together and made up a set of rules for ice diving and they all signed off on them. I believe that a instructor and a student died just before this.
Naui has a very complete set of guide lines for ice diving and Im sure that you would fined them to complicated for your liking so until such time that you become a NAUI Techical Instructor you really have no buiness telling some one what to do.

Shooter · 01-20-2009, 11:31 AM,

I love the NAUI technical gear configuration! 8) I was fortunate enough to dive and train with Tim O'Leary, the main man, For NAUI technical operations.

I guess the best thing to do is before you dive with somebody else is Go over the ropes signals and make sure everybody's on the same page. From my diving experience, I could see were the one pull could be confused, that's why always like the NAUI 2 pulls Okay signal.

Thanks for sending the info with John I'll be very interested in reading it.

MAXFACTOR · (This post was last modified: 01-27-2009, 08:07 PM by MAXFACTOR.)

grumpie,
Thank you for your responses and modifications.

Look at the previous comments on PSD ROPE SIGNALS. EVEN PSD depts have different signals. I'm sure you'll agree, that the comments, and "practices" that were being discussed were very confusing.

But, think of it from a recent certified divers point of view. ICE DIVING IS INTIMIDATING TO MANY OTHER DIVERS. If we had clear and concise set of guidelines that everyone could easily follow, it might just lead to more divers becoming ICE CERTIFIED.

Don't get me wrong, I admire your intellect and many years of experience and your training you've given me. It just seems like NONE OF THE AGENCIES, INCLUDING NAUI, (which you know I admire) along with many of the other agencies, have just never really gotten together to make a TRUE UNDERSTANDABLE and UNIVERSAL SET OF SIGNALS.

Can't we all agree to that.

When I"ve ice dived with Shooter, we all agreed on a set of signals before the dive. But the fact is, we had to agree to a set which was different then we were trained with. This practiced worked fine for us, and Shooter, is for example one of our more experienced and prolific ice divers, but we still had to go over it several times. If and when the emergency would have happened, HOW WOULD WE REACT, TO THE RULES I WAS TRAINED WITH OR THE RULES HE WAS TRAINED WITH, DESPITE THE FACT THAT WE HAD A PRE DIVE BRIEFING AND AGREED ON A NEW SET OF RULES. There has to be a better way.

HERES A CHALLENGE I PUT OUT TO YOU...... WHY DON"T YOU COORDINATE WITH ALL THE DIVE SHOPS AND SENIOR INSTUCTORS SOME COLD SUNDAY AFTERNOON, and lock yourselves in a room, and PUT TOGETHER A MINNESOTA WIS. ICE DIVE MANUAL.

We have so many talented instructors here, and many active certified ice divers in Minnesota.

You guys could COPYRIGHT IT, (much like Ron Benson did) and sell it world wide.

I trained under Ron's book. It seemed to be pretty clear for me, and I know it was made part of SDI's training program. I personally would talk with Ron B. because, in his heart of hearts he a good man, and we all know he's a great diver and will also be in the hall of fame someday. I'm sure you he could spearhead an updated version. BUT REALLY.... all of the shops need to own part of this.

Half the profits could go to the shop the other profits could go to our guys who help preserve our wrecks in Superior.

JUST SOME THOUGHTS.
Thanks Grumpie for all that you do for us divers, and the various sheriffs depts, etc.
MAXFACTOR

Shooter · 01-22-2009, 12:48 PM,

I have to agree. It would be nice if there were universal rope signals. At least the basics and people could add on from their to suit what they or their dept. needs. I do not have the exp. or connections to get the ball rolling. Maybe we could have some of the LDS people check with their agencies for feedback.

We just started our dive team and are discussing the best signals to use.

arcFlash · (This post was last modified: 01-22-2009, 02:20 PM by arcFlash.)

Let's remember this thread is for PSD signals not us recreational kiddies.

Grumpie, Is there and accident report on the ice divers? I'd be interested in reading it.

grumpie · 01-22-2009, 03:16 PM,

I really don't know. its a interesting question.The rope signals that we use as PSD would work very well for ice diving also. When your LDS does the class room and pool sesions, that would be the time to teach them. I have a small hand out that I give to my student to have, if you would like them I will try and make a copy here.
grumpie....